Discussion+4

**Group Discussion 4**
This module explored the evolving role of the teacher. In your groups, consider how a teacher in either an online or a distributed learning environment might develop and maintain teaching, cognitive and social presence?

**Questions to Guide Your Discussion**
> > Submit the key points of your discussion in a format of your group's choice.
 * How might a distributed learning experience be organized to support teaching, cognitive and social presence?
 * Which tools within or without D2L would support this goal?
 * Are there tools within or without D2L any that might hinder this goal?

Hey Nicole and Robin, Ready for the next round?

This course is my second online experience and I have had issues with this concept in both. One thing I have noted as a learning participant is the attempt by the instructor to establish a sense of community quickly in these groups and I certainly believe that this is important. I however feel that this can feel forced and artificial. Not all learner motivation is the same when taking a course and sometimes in order to get things moving the communtity building feels like being forced to interact with people on a superficial level.

Some thoughts I had on this issue was to establish smaller groups on the onset of class to establish trust quickly with a limited number of individuals and then transition into larger group discussions. Another idea was to hold an syncronous meeting before the class official begins so that you could hear and relate to the individuals on a more personal level. Yet another idea would be to have participants create pictoral bios as an introduction to the group. I find it extreamly hard to relate to anyone I dont know in a text format until I have some understanding of them. In order for me to invest time in you I have to feel some connection and I dont know if there is a one format fits all approach.

I would also like to discuss the use of discussion boards and the evaluation that goes along with them in an online course. It is an interesting dilema, in order to achieve deep learning interaction with the material and discussion must take place. I truly believe this to be true in an online environment, however at what point does the discussion become a hinderance to learning? I am sure we have all asked ourselves at one time or another during an online course "Have I made enough origional posts, have I replied to the required amount of posts to earn the mark I would like?" Does this activity foster learning? Can the amount of reading required if this environment gets out of control create "Time on task" issues?

Every online learning environment is dynamic and changing constistantly, but we as instructors and designers of this form of delivery must concider these questions. If I can relate it to individuals I have experienced in the traditional environment I would look at it something like this: many very quite learners choose to work with material internally it's not that they can speak meaningfully about the content they would rather choose to work it in their preffered learning style. I have also experienced many individuals who scim the surface when it comes to learning material and are fully prepared to tell you things that they think you want to hear. Which student has made the learning material meaningful to them and how am I to assign them a mark should it be qualitative or quantitative?

Interested in your thoughts,

Kevin

Thanks for getting things started, Kevin! This is my 9th online course in which there have been varying levels of teaching, cognitive, and social presence established. Some instructors made a concerted effort to initially help students establish social presence, whereas others simply dove into the course content. My feelings of comfort and willingness to contribute my opinion varied as a factor of my established social presence. I think that there is a skill involved in making participants feel welcome - as if they were almost physically present. I felt that our first Elluminate session was a good opportunity to establish social presence and to connect with classmates - as you suggested, Kevin, establishing smaller groups at the onset of class. It would have been helpful if the groups had continued through to the discussion forums. Hearing the actual voices of the people in the class and relating to similar concerns helped to create bonds between participants.

I felt that the introductory activity in our course served to create a more 'real' image of the students in the class. I would liked to have had access to this information further on in the course, as I began to form more of an image of my classmates. I often wanted to go back to the original introductions and fill in the details on the person's whose posting I was reading. So a suggestion to help further social presence is to make the biographical introductions accessible throughout the course (social presence).

The use of discussion boards seems to be an integral part of online learning and serves to promote critical thinking, the exchange of scholarly ideas, and the opportunity to build on each other's ideas and thoughts (cognitive presence). You've asked a great question, Kevin: "At what point does the discussion become a hinderance to learning?" I was disheartened to discover that I was 90 postings behind the other day. As I read through the postings, there were a number that were key and served to stretch my thinking. On the other hand, there were many "I agrees ..." that simply affirmed what had been said. (I do some of those myself, but have been trying to work around that particular wording since I read an article about a class that banned 'I agree'!) As participants in these forums, I think that students need to carefully consider their contributions. Is it idle 'chit chat'? Is the posting something that adds original thought? Is it something that suggests a new area of inquiry? That being said, it is most rewarding and enhances social presence when what you have posted is agreed to and when classmates respond with your name and add personal anecdotes to illustrate.

I think we head down a dangerous path when we say that the quantity of postings would be valued as equally as the quality. I would far rather read 10 succinct, carefully thought-out, and thought-provoking postings than 100 short, rambling "I agrees ...". I think that assessing participation and contributions to these forums is a difficult thing to do. In many cases, I think that marks are given in large part for participation. The depth of thought and extent of learning is necessarily assessed through more in-depth, personal assignments.

Supporting teaching presence ("the design, facilitation, and direction of cognitive and social processes for the purpose of realizing personally meaningful and educationally worthwhile learning outcomes" - Anderson, Rourke, Garrison, & Archer, 2001) may be achieved by including basic elements of design that connect teachers to learners, such as providing feedback, participating in discussion forums, creating opportunities for students to dialogue, and encouraging student-teacher contact and interaction. Providing timely feedback to both work and questions is also important as is the tone of that feedback.

Many of the tools in D2L are designed to support teaching, cognitive, and social presence: the discussion forum (cognitive & teaching), the coffee shop (social), the easily accessible private discussion forum between students and teachers (teaching, cognitive), and the page tool (social, teaching, cognitive). Although the discussion board is a forum that promotes both social and cognitive presence, perhaps the text-only interface also serves to detract from social presence. For that reason, it would be important to include synchronous learning opportunities.

Thoughts?

Robin

All great points Robin,

I think this is going to be a really good discussion for us. In order to maximize this distributed environment for the learners we must ensure the experiences they have are positive, a lot of the responsibility falls upon the instructor and some of these issues can be dealt with in design stage of the LMS. I agree that the tools you mention have been incorporated into D2L to assist as well as support best practices. I also understand the feeling of the "90 posts", I was wondering how Linda would deal with multiple discussions happening on multiple boards. Locking the discussion after it has run it's course was a great way to do that, I was starting to notice postings where people didn't know who they were responding to or even which discussion board a conversation had taken place. This was what I was talking about in my previous post.

Kevin

Hi Kevin & Nicole, At times those discussion boards do become a little entangled and difficult to follow. When reference is made to the original post and poster and the referred to post is included, I have an easier time (not sure that made sense!!). Yes, as an instructor, it must be difficult to deal with multiple discussions on multiple boards. Perhaps this relates to your earlier comment about knowing when enough posts have been made. In some classes I have been in, instructors have suggested what constitutes a 'reasonable' number of postings per week. I think this may be an important element to include - some students go way overboard on their postings, feeling that they need to respond to everyone in a group. I find this kind of enthusiasm (although admirable) difficult to keep up with (of course I feel that I need to at least read every posting), and at times a little bit frustrating - especially when the content of posts is trite (too critical??). At some point, a forum that is designed to engage students in deeper conversations can devolve into nothing more than a number of 'hoops to jump through'. Placing time limits on discussions, as you mentioned, is a good way to reign things in. I would, however, like to have the opportunity to go back to forums to re-read postings. I find that when the forums are active, there is such a volume of information that I sometimes need to go in and simply read ... no responding. For example, when personal introductions were posted - those are now gone and so is much of the information from my mind!

With reference to teacher presence, I believe that this is an important element. I think of my niece, who is taking some online classes to complete her high school. The way in which the classes are structured makes them seem more like correspondence courses - with very little, if any correspondence between her and her teachers. There are no opportunities in her courses for interaction with classmates (low or no social presence) or instructors (very low teacher presence). There have been times when she has needed to contact her teachers, however it is a slow process with response times as long as a week. She definitely does not have the sense that she is part of a community of learners, or that there is an instructor out there who is interested in her as a learner. What could the instructors do to develop more of a teaching presence? A few ideas: correspond regularly with students; send motivational messages/responses to work that has been done; request regular updates; separate the work into smaller components, requiring that portions be submitted as completed, rather than waiting for entire projects to be completed; respond in a timely manner to student queries; be 'present'! I compare these interactions to interactions in the classroom - imagine a teacher who never interacted with a student - how isolating that would feel. Do the things that I am suggesting sound labour intensive? Hmmmm ... perhaps they are, but no more so than those required of a classroom teacher, in my opinion. Does teaching in an online environment necessarily mean less contact with students? (Well, definitely face to face contact, but the opportunities for written interactions are wide open.) I have been in some online classes where the instructors are warm and open - I have no qualms about contacting them or questioning something - I feel as if we have developed a relationship and that they are very much present in the class. Others have failed to develop that presence - why? I suppose that answer is simply because they //weren't// present - no participation in discussion forums, no communication. It is an interesting area of inquiry and an important one to consider as we think about developing online communities of learners.

Interested to hear your thoughts, Robin

Phew! Just read Linda's posting in D2L regarding 'sufficient postings' - am I ever relieved!!! Robin

Hey Robin,

I feel for your niece, formal learning is a social act. When I think back to some of the attrition rates for online learning that were represented in the required readings(44%) and how they were reduced (22%) (Keller, 2008). Then take a look at learner preference for delivey method 73% Traditional, 25% hybrid and 2% online (Clayton, Blumberg & Auld, 2010). I think there may be a reason why these numbers occur when we look at your nieces' experience. We need to look at design and management of these courses to enhance learning for diverse learners and use the technology to support an educational community.

Sometimes I think learners see this method of instruction as a alternative only if convienience is paramount. I have had discussions with many individuals who feel that due to the nature of an online environment, time to complete course objectives can be increased as much as 5 times over traditional learning environments. Additional comments have been that "Institutions are only persuing this because of a cost savings in infrastrucure". I think this is why it is so important for the course to seem authentic and it is a requirement that the instuctor is actively involved.

The steps that have made recently in the D2L DB, have confirmed instructor presence by adapting to the requirement of the class. I was feeling frustrated by the number of postings as well, only by being present and active was that situation able to be addressed.

Clayton, K., Blumberg, F. & Auld, D. (2010). The relationship between motivation, learning strategies and choice of environment whether traditional or including an online component. // British Journal of Educational Technology, 41 // (3), 349-364.

[]

Keller, J. (2008). First principles of motivation to learn and e3-learning. // Distance // Education, 29 (2), 175-185. []

Kevin

Hi Kevin and Robin,

I am still here! I haven’t had a chance to post anything this weekend. My best friend flew in from Toronto last night and will be working at my school substitute teaching. Things are also insanely busy at school – so something had to give!

I have really enjoyed reading the discussion thus far. You are both very well written and provide insightful and thought-provoking thoughts and ideas.

This is my 7th/8th (I am taking two courses right now) online course. I really enjoy the online learning environment. Without the online environment, geographically speaking, I would not be able to participate in a program like this (I live in a small community in the NWT – which I am sure I’ve stated before!). In addition to this, I am quite introverted by nature [Says the Myers Briggs Intelligence Test (MBTI)]. In addition to this, I find it difficult to find time in my busy life to communicate in real-time environments. The online environment is easy to access and provides so much flexibility!

You have suggested many great ideas that provide social, cognitive and teaching presence in an online learning environment. From my personal experience, I believe that quality learning (in an online environment) requires all of these dimensions. I have found that social presence has helped motivate me to do my best as a learner. For instance, I am interested (or nosy?) to find out where my classmates are from, what jobs they have, what they do for a living, etc…I also enjoy discussing, preferably in small groups, the topics learned throughout the course. In addition to this, I like having the option of working in a group for assignments.

I agree, many of the tools in D2L foster social, cognitive, and teaching presence. From private discussions, open discussion forums, and the ability to page classmates (social/cognitive), to the ability to privately message professors (teaching), and the ability to view (and re-view) course content (cognitive). There are also many tools outside of d2l that support presence in an online learning environment: email, wikis, blogs, facebook, twitter, imovie, podcasts, delicious (file sharing)…the list goes on (any ideas?!)

As always, it is great learning with you!

Nicole

Hi Nicole & Kevin, Yes, I agree - only by maintaining a presence was Linda able to moderate the discussion forum and set some realistic guidelines (which I certainly appreciated!). As you've both noted, convenience is often a primary reason for choosing online learning. I wonder if that creates or leads to motivation problems for learner who are by nature more extroverted or more social? (Perhaps that's my niece's issue.)

Thanks for pointing out all of the 'outside' tools that can support social, teaching, and cognitive presence, Nicole. I think I've become so 'embedded' in the D2L environment that I forgot to think outside of it. Although we haven't experienced the instructors' presence with or in these outside media, I have and am experiencing it in other courses. For example, one of my instructor's websites that is heavily utilized in a course is full of resources. She emails us frequently with updates and information - another prime tool for establishing or promoting presence (teaching, cognitive, and social). It's interesting, the instructor I'm speaking of is in a f2f class, yet she uses her website as the main means of communication (outside of class, that is). I've heard more from her in emails than I have from probably all of my online instructors in all of my courses. I think that this particular instructor has done an exemplary job of establishing her presence and promoting an engaged and academic dialogue with her students.

What do you think? Have we covered it? I think we may soon start going in circles. Is it time to wrap it up? Thursday is the deadline, but I'm good to go now, if you two are. Let me know and if you like, I can write it up.

Robin

p.s. One question - did you both receive marks for discussion 2? I have for discussions 1 & 3, but not 2, which says 0/10 :-( Just wondering if you are in the same position.

Hey Robin,

I have checked my marks for the discussion and these have been entered for all three, maybe Linda is still working on it. I am good to call the discussion, I certainly think we have beaten it up.

Kevin

p.s. Thanks for offering to do the synopsis : )

A little longer than my last one ... any additions/deletions ... anything? I'll wait to hear before posting. Thanks, Robin.

Our group agreed that it is important for instructors to quickly establish a sense of community, or social presence, early on in courses. Tools to help achieve social presence include the discussion forum and Elluminate sessions. In our course, the ‘scavenger hunt’ was used as an engaging and fun way to get to know other participants and to establish one’s social presence. In some cases, however, it seems that community-establishing practices feel forced and artificial. By holding synchronous meetings early on in courses, in which participants interact and hear each other’s voices, connections that are more authentic may be formed. By starting with small group discussions, then transitioning to large group discussions, as was done in this class, students and teachers have more of an opportunity to establish a social presence and build relationships.

Supporting teaching presence may be achieved by including basic elements of design that connect teachers to learners, such as providing feedback, participating in discussion forums, creating opportunities for students to dialogue, and encouraging student-teacher contact and interaction. Providing timely feedback to both work and questions is also important, as is the tone of that feedback.

Many of the tools in D2L are designed to support teaching, cognitive and social presence: private discussions, the coffee shop, the easily accessible private discussion forum between students and teachers, the ability to view and review course content, and the page tool. Although the discussion board is a forum that promotes teaching, cognitive, and social presence, perhaps the text-only interface also serves to //detract// from social presence. For that reason, it is important to include synchronous learning opportunities.

It is worth noting that a discussion forum may also detract from the learning environment, with students feeling compelled to post, when they really have nothing substantial to contribute, other than ‘I agree’. At some point, a forum that is designed to engage students in deeper conversations can devolve into nothing more than a number of ‘hoops to jump through’. It was with great relief that our group read Linda’s suggestion to ‘take a break’!

We also discussed other ways that teachers can establish presence and came up with a few ideas: correspond regularly with students; send motivational messages/responses to work that has been done (thanks for the comments in the ‘grades’ tab!); and participate in the discussion forum, offering advice, direction, and questioning to promote deeper thought and reflection.

There are many tools outside of D2L that may also be used to contribute to teaching, cognitive, and social presence, such as email, wikis, blogs, Facebook, Twitter, imovie, podcasts, Delicious, Wallwisher, Voicethread, and so on.

As noted in the “Strategic Times”, “Online teacher presence has power: to give learners confidence; to engage learners with belonging; to impact organization with learners feeling in control; to nudge students toward meaningful learning; and to add value to student achievement”.

Strategic Times. (2009). The power of teacher presence online. Retrieved from []

Looks good Robin, thanks again for the hard work!

Kevin

Okay, thanks. I'll post it now. Have a good day! Robin

This is amazing work Robin! Thanks so very much for your hard work! I've had a crazy busy week and just got online again now...My school is doing standardized testing and I have organized the entire event for 450 students!!

It was so great to work with both of you :)

Nicole